Let's Learn from the Past

Many of you are likely familiar with the Einstein quote:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Humans are creatures of habit. We appreciate the familiar contours of a well-worn path. Sometimes it takes a "reset" like the one we're going through to do a little introspection. Let me begin my saying what we as a community did really well at MGTOWForums:

-We explained female behavior better than anyone. Not to detract from PUAs; we don't see sh*t-tests as a test of our mettle but rather symptomatic of female neuroses and ultimately poor mate selection methodology. In short, we are not blinded by our sex drive, nor by blue pill blinders.

-Camaraderie. We were able to shoot the sh*t, without people forming cliques or vendettas against one another. We could disagree without being disagreeable. People would coin expressions left and right and we would invent a red pill terminology and perspective for just about everything. Mocking female dating profiles, amusing post-wallers, and the rest of it.

But I can't help but think that the elephant in the room that none could acknowledge was this creeping negativity which I think ultimately did the site in. We become what we challenge. To use an example from modern culture in Dark Knight Rises, there's that exchange where the investigator is reminded that he should be mindful not to become like the villains he seeks out. We can be critical without surrendering to negativity, purposelessness, defeatism, and anger. I can only speculate about Nacho; but it began with a large number of users being banned, increasingly angry posts, bitterness at AVfM and others, and now this. There is a time and place to vent, but we must not stay there.

We will never stop calling women out on their behavior. That is a gift MGTOW gives the world- to see through the feminist fog, and we do it better than anyone. But we can do it with humor and detachment. We have hacked life. We have found a little known route off of the main road to a better place. So let's talk about that too. It doesn't have to be activity, it can be serenity too- the peace and quiet we have from going our own way. It could be your tips on making the most out of Netflix. Of course, if you have a crazy story of running from authorities after your visa expired in a 3rd world country, that works as well!

I have something in the works; and would like to invite people who share this vision - of creating a positive, forward-looking community to contact me. I can share with you what's in place, and where I could use your help.

Also, welcome your thoughts about your sense of the learnings from the last forum.

All I ask is, do not let the females in.

We can handle pretty much anything brought by the men. The mgtowforums crashed because of whatever happened to "Nacho", not because the membership veered off into the ditch.

Strong_Hand wrote:All I ask is, do not let the females in.

We can handle pretty much anything brought by the men. The mgtowforums crashed because of whatever happened to "Nacho", not because the membership veered off into the ditch.

I'm in agreement to this. MGTOW forums was my only respite from women and it's hard to find another place like that.

Strong_Hand wrote:All I ask is, do not let the females in.

We can handle pretty much anything brought by the men. The mgtowforums crashed because of whatever happened to "Nacho", not because the membership veered off into the ditch.

Completely agree.

Before I started lurking the previous MGTOW forums, I felt that I didn't want to become another cog in the fundamentally flawed/unfair system that is society and reading the old threads helped me see that there was an alternative for me.

I particularly enjoyed your threads Jagrmeister, they were very insightful and helped in opening my eyes. I do hope that the community that was built rises and continues to grow from the ashes.

On topic though, I agree 100%, there are things to be learned from this incident and shouldn't be forgotten least we all become like Sisyphus!

All due respect, let females in.

How can you stop them? If they start trolling just ignore them.

Maybe give them their own sub-forum where they can challenge any MGTOW or RP concepts?

Am I missing something here?

I'd also want to point out I feared "the Ban Hammer" when I posted because some key MGTOW members like Frosty where banned after years of writing valuable content. I looked at MGTOWForums like a bar amongst brothers where I can speak freely, minus rape and violence, what's on my mind and not get punched in the face.

RPanarachist wrote:All due respect, let females in.

No.  Full stop.

How can you stop them? If they start trolling just ignore them.

Nope.  Ban them.  Pure and simple.

Once the women get a foothold the division begins.  Frank and open discussion tanks quickly.  Some members will lapse into white knight mode and the whole thing will degenerate.  It will be a frequent occurance.

Maybe give them their own sub-forum where they can challenge any MGTOW or RP concepts?

Nope.  They've had 50+ years and now own the current popular media space to issue all the challenges they care to.  Their voice is not being muted because of the existence of a small male only space.  They have plenty of media by which to respond.

Am I missing something here?

Much, I'm afraid.

that's fine, I have no dog in this hunt.

I wasn't vested in the old MGTOW forums, only lurked there for a few days.

unplugged wrote:I'd also want to point out I feared "the Ban Hammer" when I posted because some key MGTOW members like Frosty where banned after years of writing valuable content.  I looked at MGTOWForums like a bar amongst brothers where I can speak freely, minus rape and violence, what's on my mind and not get punched in the face.

I feared the ban hammer as well. One of my posts was greeted with a warning that that kind of content can lead to a ban on a single incident and I nearly sh*t myself, lol. There just shouldn't be that kind of fear associated with any community. Perhaps as a mod, I'll come to understand some of the frustrations that come with new members or those with low post counts being abrasive, all defended under the umbrella of "hey, i'm going my OWN way, so I can say what I want, deal!". But at the same time, there has to be a better way. In my view, the forum should have detailed and clear Principles. If people buy into them, great; there should be harmony. If not, there's other places on the web.

The Ban Hammer was ridiculous. No one can speak freely in such an environment. Arguing over definitions and manospere sects and minutia, a waste of time. The total absence of a known female presence priceless. Same for trolls. Hens & Trolls have there own spaces. No one who's been around the block wants to argue Nawalt all day. Limited access to memberships and allowing the outsiders to lurk was a beautiful practice. Separating wheat and chaff by means of a strong introduction filter provided by the mods, also priceless. Just my two cents.

RPanarachist wrote:
Maybe give them their own sub-forum where they can challenge any MGTOW or RP concepts?

My view is that women should not mix in MGTOW forums because they noise to signal ratio would become lopsided. However, the idea of a quarantined "Opposing Views" section that is highly moderated may have some value. Even for myself, I find at times it's easy to become lax with argumentation when we deal with people who share my assumptions. Communicating to blue-pillers, women, etc. forces us to question our assumptions and sharpen our argumentation. Personally, I enjoyed taking the arguments I'd make on MGTOWForum and seeing if I could sweat it out on feminist sites, or Reddit Red Pill - the counter-arguments never forced me to retreat, but did force me to refine my thinking. If other people are copacetic with it, I'd consider it.

"My view is that women should not mix in MGTOW forums because they noise to signal ratio would become lopsided. "

"the idea of a quarantined "Opposing Views" section that is highly moderated may have some value."

This & this, trying to avoid a derailment and an echo chamber simultaneously. Could be worth a try but, it might be even better to have a "sister" forum or something. I'll leave those decisions to those who have seen generations of forums come and go.

No no no. No women in the future MGTOW Forums.

This is a male only space for men who are going their own way to meet other men doing the same and discuss about things.

We have women in everything else / every facet of our lives which can get nauseating at some point. So a male only space is a must.

Hobson wrote: ... trying to avoid a derailment and an echo chamber simultaneously. Could be worth a try but, it might be even better to have a "sister" forum or something. I'll leave those decisions to those who have seen generations of forums come and go.

First, let's just aim to recreate the older forum's dynamic. Let's just focus on getting back into the fucking saddle as we were. Once we have that, THEN those interested in white-knighting for the bitches and hearing their "opposing opinions" should bring it up.

I am POSITIVE that once we have the atmosphere of the older forum (minus Nacho's bullying), this debate will become moot. The worthlessness of opinions of split-tails to this forum's members will be obvious.

As it is, there's too much of female invasion of male minds already, online and offline.

If we allow females in, I can guarantee this forum will blow up within WEEKS DAYS.

The banhammer was always so confusing to me. I saw posters with hundreds, sometimes even thousands of posts simply *poof*

I'm in the "no females" school of thought. There are plenty of female-only spaces, but a dearth of male-only spaces.

Gromnir wrote:The banhammer was always so confusing to me.  I saw posters with hundreds, sometimes even thousands of posts simply *poof*

I'm in the "no females" school of thought.  There are plenty of female-only spaces, but a dearth of male-only spaces.

True, it's only fair that we have our own space, women have already invaded all our other spaces while keeping their own female only spaces.

They seek to cause conflict between us and mold our last remaining stronghold's into their feminized images.

I agree with the members of the old guard who want to adopt a "No Girls Allowed" policy going forward. Trolls will try and penetrate whatever shields are in place, so they'll have to be dealt with on that front. If I ask a man why he thinks what he thinks, I can more often than not gee a decent explanation, just as I would do my best to give if called to do the same. Put a woman in that position, you get a nonsensical string of rationalizations, anecdotes, obfuscation, and snide remarks that I'd venture to say get in the way of ANYONE'S legitimate purpose here. We have to hear the gals' opinions everywhere else we go the more sanctuaries from that, the better.

The old guard feel that way, and as a lurker of a handful of corners of the manosphere, the old forums were the best at keeping the conversations on track, but this is the observation of an outsider looking in, for whatever it's worth.

the only lesson I learned was not to donate money to someone who doesn't appreciate my presence or input.

RPanarachist wrote:All due respect, let females in.

No way. I come to MGTOW groups to get away from their manipulative, fucked up, bullshit.

I'm sure they lurk, but as soon as they get posting its like Ebola.

No fucking way!

If they want to post then let them go and do it on A Place to Cry A Voice for Men, that is part of their agenda, not MGTOW's

Under normal circumstances, having an "anti-echo chamber" section where people can voice dissenting opinions would be a great idea, or at least interesting in the very least.

Unfortunately, history shows us that women often do not present dissenting opinions, or logic-based facts. They play off emotions. They make someone "feel" like the enemy, another "feel" like the hero. And this is how they infiltrate. The disorganize clear-thought by toying with emotions, and organize men into a controllable hierarchy.

Do all women do this? No. But it is usually impossible to tell until after the damage is done.

Still, it is a new forum.. and it may be interesting for some to see how things would play out.

There can't be cunts on the forums... there's no computers in the kitchen.

Fuck that noise.

They get to invade every place that men used to have for their own. If they want to complain and blame men for everything they have the rest of society to listen to them.

what kind of things were people getting banned for on the old forum?

I don't think I agree with an "anti-MGTOW" sub forum either. I definitely wouldn't go to a board where females were allowed. There would just be no reason to visit it. The reason I lurked the other board daily was because I got to read the experiences of men by men about their lives and how that related to me. I know some people really enjoy having their beliefs challenged, but there are tons of places for that. If you think your philosophy might be wrong go ask a friend or get on 4chan.