My Introduction

Hello All

I am a former Lurker in my late-20s from the UK who has been following MGTOW Forums since roughly a few weeks prior to the Cracked Article in 2012.

Before that, I previously followed other Manosphere sites and channels such as Roissy, Captain Capitalism, The Spearhead, No Ma’am as well as Barbarossa, Stardusk and GWW along with a few others, all of which helped me develop my understanding of women, marriage and relationships even if notions such as Hypergamy and Briffault’s Law went against all that I was taught to believe in by society.

My journey to becoming a MGTOW was in hindsight thankfully uneventful compared to other member’s hellish experiences though it is said that one who is wise is one who learns from everyone and I have learnt a lot from the experiences of many men here and in other parts of the Manosphere as well as in real-life for the past few years.

My life was mostly dominated by women from my maternal side of the family and my mother’s misandric-leaning divorced female friends and relatives, especially since my mother practically forced my dad to move far away from his side of the family. Though my mother is an AWALT and her marriage with my dad can be described as somewhat dysfunctional, she does realise through observing her female friends that divorced women are not better off in the long term.


Regarding my own experiences with women, the closest I have ever been in a relationship was when I was eventually friend-zoned by a girl called Laura whose boyfriend Anthony (that I both befriended) not only disappeared for over a year and half but also encouraged me to get with her.

Given my own inexperience with women up to then, it was not surprising that she would call me everyday with the same damn first questions during her boyfriend’s disappearing act (before using me as her emotional tampon), “where’s Anthony?”, “heard from Anthony?”, “Seen Anthony?”, "anything new from Anthony?", "Anthony.. Anthony.." and so on.

Predictably, upon Anthony’s return Laura immediately forgave him from disappearing and acted like nothing happened. After a while, I decided to cut ties with her over the phone since it really was going nowhere and had enough.

Another time was when I moved to a new secondary school when both my year and the year below attempted to set me up with a seemingly demure petite blonde girl called Anna from the year below, who soon unleashed her inner crazy and launched a campaign of harassment against me after the summer holidays that year when I basically friend-zoned her. Though to be honest I never really believed that she was serious to begin with but rather sought drama which I never entertained, prior using my pint-sized hell-bitch of an older sister as a proxy to nip Anna’s tiresome campaign in the bud.

Since those incidents I had a difficult time believing women were sincere in their interactions with me and refused to do unreciprocated favours for women, however at the time I still believed in that mythical NAWALT who would both complete and complement me in both body, mind and soul.

I would later go to social gatherings and group trips over the next few years and even thought at some point I found my NAWALTs though in the end, I stopped going after having had enough of being treated like a low priority and realising I got nothing out of those gatherings and trips.

Note - All Names have been changed


Roughly around that time, I started to take up punting with escorts though not before doing a lot of research (reading reviews / feedback / etc) prior to finally taking the plunge and quickly appreciating the benefits of a straightforward pay-for-play transaction compared to the amount money and wasted-time spent going to bars / clubs, let alone on relationships / marriages with women whose sexual history may in fact be many times worse than the average honest escort who in many ways is comparable to a sexual strike-breaker.     

It has also made me contemplate as to what women actually bring to the table into a marriage or relationship that cannot be gained in a transactional manner.


Later on my friends started to get married and have children, which made me feel depressed until I unwittingly stumbled upon the Manosphere after looking up reasons why a man should not get married, which along with events from one friend’s marriage eventually blowing up began my progression to becoming a MGOTW and made me grateful for not marrying.  

The one friend in question was married to a young woman whose parents were divorced (Red Flag), during the start of his marriage almost 5 years ago I warned him to not allow his wife to force him to drop all of his single male friends, advice which he adopted and has subsequently served him well when the marriage fell apart despite not being the sort of person I would dispense Red Pill / MGTOW wisdom to along with my other friends.

He even managed to preserve his male space (such as his personal gym) in his own home to some degree despite his wife demands to sell it though eventually like all marriages went it downhill fairly quickly (dashing my hopes for his marriage to be the exception instead of yet another statistic).

It started with my friend's wife losing their baby and both receiving harassing phone calls / texts that accused him of seeing other women and generally blackening his name, it then progressed to a massive argument after his wife betrayed his trust by spilling his personal secrets to her family when she walked out and later brought him to court via false accusations, which he was later cleared of with his friends standing by his side.

And the most messed up thing in all this in my friend's situation? The one sending the harassing phone calls and texts was none other than my friend's ex-wife's younger sister, whose actions my friend's ex is defending against police enquiry.

Needless to say, whatever desire I had to get married as since been extinguished thanks to personally witnessing how my friend was treated by his ex's family and the courts.    


In light of what I have witnessed and been though over the years, practically speaking I have been thinking ahead in how to properly live a MGTOW lifestyle, whether I want to remain in a country that sees Misandric Saudi Arabias and Irans like Sweden as something seriously worth emulating or move abroad to more saner pastures (while accepting the reality that all women everywhere are like that) as well as whether to enjoy the decline or work hard for the specific purpose of eventually fathering kids via host surrogacy.

It is worth mentioning that despite everything I hold no malice toward women, just plain indifference and pity even towards those who wasted my time and made my friends lives hell.

Emmanuel J Galtstein wrote:Hello All

I am a former Lurker in my late-20s from the UK who has been following MGTOW Forums since roughly a few weeks prior to the Cracked Article in 2012.

Before that, I previously followed other Manosphere sites and channels such as Roissy, Captain Capitalism, The Spearhead, No Ma’am as well as Barbarossa, Stardusk and GWW along with a few others, all of which helped me develop my understanding of women, marriage and relationships even if notions such as Hypergamy and Briffault’s Law went against all that I was taught to believe in by society.

My Journey

My journey to becoming a MGTOW was in hindsight thankfully uneventful compared to other member’s hellish experiences though it is said that one who is wise is one who learns from everyone and I have learnt a lot from the experiences of many men here and in other parts of the Manosphere as well as in real-life for the past few years.

My life was mostly dominated by women from my maternal side of the family and my mother’s misandric-leaning divorced female friends and relatives, especially since my mother practically forced my dad to move far away from his side of the family. Though my mother is an AWALT and her marriage with my dad can be described as somewhat dysfunctional, she does realise through observing her female friends that divorced women are not better off in the long term.

Experiences with Women

Regarding my own experiences with women, the closest I have ever been in a relationship was when I was eventually friend-zoned by a girl called Laura whose boyfriend Anthony (that I both befriended) not only disappeared for over a year and half but also encouraged me to get with her.

Given my own inexperience with women up to then, it was not surprising that she would call me everyday with the same damn first questions during her boyfriend’s disappearing act (before using me as her emotional tampon), “where’s Anthony?”, “heard from Anthony?”, “Seen Anthony?”, "anything new from Anthony?", "Anthony.. Anthony.." and so on.

Predictably, upon Anthony’s return Laura immediately forgave him from disappearing and acted like nothing happened. After a while, I decided to cut ties with her over the phone since it really was going nowhere and had enough.

Another time was when I moved to a new secondary school when both my year and the year below attempted to set me up with a seemingly demure petite blonde girl called Anna from the year below, who soon unleashed her inner crazy and launched a campaign of harassment against me after the summer holidays that year when I basically friend-zoned her. Though to be honest I never really believed that she was serious to begin with but rather sought drama which I never entertained, prior using my pint-sized hell-bitch of an older sister as a proxy to nip Anna’s tiresome campaign in the bud.

Since those incidents I had a difficult time believing women were sincere in their interactions with me and refused to do unreciprocated favours for women, however at the time I still believed in that mythical NAWALT who would both complete and complement me in both body, mind and soul.

I would later go to social gatherings and group trips over the next few years and even thought at some point I found my NAWALTs though in the end, I stopped going after having had enough being treated like a low priority and realising I got nothing out of those gatherings and trips.

Note - All Names have been changed

Experiences with Honest Women

Roughly around that time, I started to take up punting with escorts though not before doing a lot of research (reading reviews / feedback / etc) prior to finally taking the plunge and quickly appreciating the benefits of a straightforward pay-for-play transaction compared to the amount money and wasted-time spent going to bars / clubs, let alone on relationships / marriages with women whose sexual history may in fact be many times worse than the average honest escort who in many ways is comparable to a sexual strike-breaker.     

It has also made me contemplate as to what women actually bring to the table into a marriage or relationship that cannot be gained in a transactional manner.

Progression to MGTOW

Later on my friends started to get married and have children, which made me feel depressed until I unwittingly stumbled upon the Manosphere after looking up reasons why a man should not get married, which along with events from one friend’s marriage eventually blowing up began my progression to becoming a MGOTW and made me grateful for not marrying.  

The one friend in question was married to a young woman whose parents were divorced (Red Flag), during the start of his marriage almost 5 years ago I warned him to not allow his wife to force him to drop all of his single male friends, advice which he adopted and has subsequently served him well when the marriage fell apart despite not being the sort of person I would dispense Rill Pill / MGTOW wisdom to along with my other friends.

He even managed to preserve his male space (such as his personal gym) in his own home to some degree despite his wife demands to sell it though eventually like all marriages went it downhill fairly quickly (dashing my hopes for his marriage to be the exception instead of yet another statistic).

It started with my friend's wife losing their baby and both receiving harassing phone calls / texts that accused him of seeing other women and generally blackening his name, it then progressed to a massive argument after his wife betrayed his trust by spilling his personal secrets to her family when she walked out and later brought him to court via false accusations, which he was later cleared of with his friends standing by his side.

And the most messed up thing in all this in my friend's situation? The one sending the harassing phone calls and texts was none other than my friend's ex-wife's younger sister, whose actions my friend's ex is defending against police enquiry.

Needless to say, whatever desire I had to get married as since been extinguished thanks to personally witnessing how my friend was treated by his ex's family and the courts.    

A MGTOW's Choices

In light of what I have witnessed and been though over the years, practically speaking I have been thinking ahead in how to properly live a MGTOW lifestyle, whether I want to remain in a country that sees Misandric Saudi Arabias and Irans like Sweden as something seriously worth emulating or move abroad to more saner pastures (while accepting the reality that all women everywhere are like that) as well as whether to enjoy the decline or work hard for the specific purpose of eventually fathering kids via host surrogacy.

It is worth mentioning that despite everything I hold no malice toward women, just plain indifference and pity even towards those who wasted my time and made my friends lives hell.

Excellent intro. Welcome!

Welcome aboard, Emannuel !

Great Intro.

About your story with Laura- hypergamy amongst Western women has been taken to ridiculous levels. TV is one factor (with outlandish feminist expectations thrown in- ie: Lena Duham in Girls getting with good looking guys); where men consciously process and disbelieve it at a real level, but women, given their associative mind, allows its misinformation to pollute and shape their expectations in the real world. They believe they deserve an alpha male, and will do anything to nail one down- even if it means being mistreated.

You might like this thread:
http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/mgtow-general-discussion/21907-beware-culture.html

The Twat echo chamber is another- where women reinforce their misperceptions and offer emotional support like "you can get any guy you want, you're beautiful!" and it goes unchallenged in their world. Feminism has given them the courage to believe their own collective judgment - a huge mistake.

The long and short of it, is that a woman's hypergamous nature has created an extreme situation, where a small fraction men capture all their interest, and the other block of men have as much value as used tissue paper. With the Hamster in charge, even though her mind rebels at Anthony's aloofness, his absence and scarcity suggests value -- in cavewoman terms. So we have this bizarre situation where most men are living the modern world, using modern values and standards and women are conducting assessment of male values using pre-civilization terms. We're not even speaking the same language, so to speak. Now, natural alphas and PUAs can clean up in this situation- but that also means dealing with the horsesh*t that goes along with "training" your average woman. P4P is a solid alternative.

Jagrmeister wrote:About your story with Laura- hypergamy amongst Western women has been taken to ridiculous levels.  TV is one factor (with outlandish feminist expectations thrown in- ie: Lena Duham in Girls getting with good looking guys); where men consciously process and disbelieve it at a real level, but women, given their associative mind, allows its misinformation to pollute and shape their expectations in the real world.  They believe they deserve an alpha male, and will do anything to nail one down- even if it means being mistreated.

You might like this thread:
http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/mgtow-general-discussion/21907-beware-culture.html

The Twat echo chamber is another- where women reinforce their misperceptions and offer emotional support like "you can get any guy you want, you're beautiful!" and it goes unchallenged in their world.  Feminism has given them the courage to believe their own collective judgment - a huge mistake.  

The long and short of it, is that a woman's hypergamous nature has created an extreme situation, where a small fraction men capture all their interest, and the other block of men have as much value as used tissue paper.  With the Hamster in charge, even though her mind rebels at Anthony's aloofness, his absence and scarcity suggests value  -- in cavewoman terms.   So we have this bizarre situation where most men are living the modern world, using modern values and standards and women are conducting assessment of male values using pre-civilization terms.  We're not even speaking the same language, so to speak.  Now, natural alphas and PUAs can clean up in this situation- but that also means dealing with the horsesh*t that goes along with "training" your average woman.  P4P is a solid alternative.

Thanks Jagrmeister

When I first started going down the P4P route, I'd always compare the prices of the former with the money spent at bars and clubs, wondering why I am even wasting money and time for a woman whose sexual history may in fact be much worse than a honest escort who regularly gets herself checked at a clinic.

One is the equivalent of a Bear fishing for Salmon that practically jumps into his mouth during the Salmon Run, while the other is comparable to a typical Feline needlessly expending energy into fruitless chases for prey and fighting / dying over the occasional scraps of carrion.

The sad thing about many pre-wall women today (at least those around my age and younger) is the knowledge that no matter how much beauty / looks (and to lesser extent fertility) they're able to retain, the baggage women have accumulated up to now and the baggage they'll continue to accumulate (e.g. debt, notches, thug-spawn, more debt, STDs, hard partying, contempt of men, etc) as they hit the wall and grow older pretty much makes them unmarriable.

And that is without even mentioning the misandric laws and female privilege which have given women today a licence to unleash their baser pre/anti-civilizational natures.

The sad thing about many pre-wall women today (at least those around my age and younger) is the knowledge that no matter how much beauty / looks (and to lesser extent fertility) they're able to retain, the baggage women have accumulated up to now and the baggage they'll continue to accumulate (e.g. debt, notches, thug-spawn, more debt, STDs, hard partying, contempt of men, etc) as they hit the wall and grow older pretty much makes them unmarriable.

And that is without even mentioning the misandric laws and female privilege which have given women today a licence to unleash their baser pre/anti-civilizational natures

What civilizations have forgotten is what the female base nature really is. Even if you didn't believe in the bible, the story of Adam and Eve is an interesting illustration, isn't it? How many thousands of years old is that story?

Even if I did know a woman who presented herself as ideal marriage material in every conceivable understanding of the phrase, all I have to do is look at those misandric laws and the conduct of family courts.

That decision is already made. It isn't worth the risk.

mr.anonymous wrote:What civilizations have forgotten is what the female base nature really is. Even if you didn't believe in the bible, the story of Adam and Eve is an interesting illustration, isn't it? How many thousands of years old is that story?

Even if I did know a woman who presented herself as ideal marriage material in every conceivable understanding of the phrase, all I have to do is look at those misandric laws and the conduct of family courts.

That decision is already made. It isn't worth the risk.

Exactly. Even if we posit that "Not All Women Are Like That" - in the limited sense that "Not All Women" would kick us to the curb, that there are (or might be) women who are looking to mate with "her soul-mate" forever and ever - we are still faced with the unavoidable fact that all women have the power of those misandric laws, and the support of those misandric family courts, and the guns of the White Knights in Blue whose salary is paid by VAWA grants and other such mechanisms, at her beck and call. Every single one of the women in our world.

Ms. JudgyBitch, to call forth an example from the MRM All-Stars, could call up her local police and tell them "I'm afraid of Mr. JudgyPutz." (Never mind his real name, for now.) Just on a basis of "feelings." That's enough to get him hauled off, barred from getting within shouting distance of the house he bought for her and the children she supposedly bore for him, and if he winds up sleeping in a refrigerator box under a bridge abutment - well, He Made Her Afraid. He must be an Evil Man, and his fate doesn't matter.

She has the Guns Of Government at her beck and call. It doesn't matter how sweet she his, how averse to conflict she is, how loving and supporting she is. All Women have the Guns Of Government on their side.

And in that factor, that life-and-death factor, All Women Are Like That.

Jagrmeister wrote:About your story with Laura- hypergamy amongst Western women has been taken to ridiculous levels.  TV is one factor (with outlandish feminist expectations thrown in- ie: Lena Duham in Girls getting with good looking guys); where men consciously process and disbelieve it at a real level, but women, given their associative mind, allows its misinformation to pollute and shape their expectations in the real world.  They believe they deserve an alpha male, and will do anything to nail one down- even if it means being mistreated.

You might like this thread:
http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/mgtow-general-discussion/21907-beware-culture.html

The Twat echo chamber is another- where women reinforce their misperceptions and offer emotional support like "you can get any guy you want, you're beautiful!" and it goes unchallenged in their world.  Feminism has given them the courage to believe their own collective judgment - a huge mistake.  

The long and short of it, is that a woman's hypergamous nature has created an extreme situation, where a small fraction men capture all their interest, and the other block of men have as much value as used tissue paper.  With the Hamster in charge, even though her mind rebels at Anthony's aloofness, his absence and scarcity suggests value  -- in cavewoman terms.   So we have this bizarre situation where most men are living the modern world, using modern values and standards and women are conducting assessment of male values using pre-civilization terms.  We're not even speaking the same language, so to speak.  Now, natural alphas and PUAs can clean up in this situation- but that also means dealing with the horsesh*t that goes along with "training" your average woman.  P4P is a solid alternative.

This particular training is not worth the bullshit. Keep clear!